FOOTNOTE 1: Here are the scriptures that apply to this portion of the prophecy(Later in the tape, it implies that Bob Jones was speaking of the white horse of Rev. 6:2 since he mentions the red horse, which comes after the white one.):
Rev 6:2 - And I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him; and he went out conquering, and to conquer.
(Footnote: According to the 'Treasury of Scripture Knowledge': This
seems to be a representation of the person and dignity of Christ, and the
mild and beneficent triumphs of his Gospel over all the powers of paganism.
Rev 17:14 cross-referenced with Rev 19:11-16 clearly speaks of Jesus’ Second
Coming on a white horse. However, according to the "Believer's Study Bible",
the horseman, certainly symbolizes the spirit of conquest and can further
be identified with the "man of sin" of 2 Thess. 2:3,4 - There is also the
similarity among all four horsemen and the Lord's description of the Tribulation
in Matt. 24.)
Bob Jones' White Talking Horse . . . (Bob Jones) "The first time I ever seen the white horse was when an angel called Gabriel was riding. I saw him a couple of times in the '70's, I didn't understand what it meant, I would just see the white horse...(Mike Bickle interjects) (Mike Bickle) "The white horse always speaks in Bob's visions...In his vision it speaks of the corporate purpose that God is bringing to pass...
This quote was found in Weighed
and Found Wanting, by Bill Randles. Randles seems to quote this part
of the "Visions and Revelations" tape as more of a demonstration of 'prophetic
wierdness' than anything else. He of course would have no knowledge that
Jones would later say the Lord showed him that the white horse in Revelations
was heroin with the devil riding on him. I have not contacted Randles on
the date of the tape because of the reference to the '70's in the quote.
The "Visions and Revelations" tape was quite a pivotal one during the 'KC
prophet' crisis, and is probably rather well-known by both 'KC prophet'
investigators and former KC members.
His predictions of a large California earthquake may be similiar to
William Branham's prophecy mentioned below.
This is because if the Cascadia Mountain range is involved in another earthquake, geologists predict that it would shake the California coast the length of 700 miles times 100 miles wide. Geologists have uncovered compelling evidence that the last one occurred on Jan 26th, in the year of 1700. Cedar tree rings of cedars killed by the earthquake, local Cascadia Indian legends, and historical accounts of a sunami in Japan spawned by a Cascadian earthquake, point to this date. The earthquake is estimated to have been a 9 magnitude, and this rupture is expected to occur every 300-400 years.
William Branham, who gave a similar prophecy about an earthquake in California many years ago, did not know tectonic plate theory. His earthquake prophecy about California has been rather well-known for a long time. I've heard of it myself some years ago as a young Christian. But if this could be considered a similar prophecy (and there is nothing wrong with that), there are stark differences between how the two prophesies were given. One of the differences is that Bob Jones’ used terminology in this tape Jones that demonstrates he is clearly familiar with Tetonic Plate theory. He uses earthquake-related terminology, which Branham most likely did not do at all, being uneducated in it and given the times he lived in. Another difference is how Jones clearly gave a time frame for his prophecy.
More importantly than these minor facts, is the manner in which these prophecy was given. This tape included some boastfulness, especially over other 'earthquake' prophecies. In our opinion as witnesses to the tape, the inflections and words of the tape were clearly a 'showing off', and he depicts God as 'showing off' too! It was quite disturbing to have to listen to. In fact, we stopped the tape for awhile. There was no personal humility by Jones on this tape, no glory to God (unless it's the god who likes to show off and revel over destruction), and no gospel message or scriptures.
For Scriptural references to earthquakes/prophecy, see 1 Kings 19:11-12, Isa. 29:6, Ezek. 38:9, Amos 1:1, Zec. 14:5, Rev. 6:12, Rev. 8:5, Rev. 11:13-19, Rev. 16:18,-20
FOOTNOTE 5: "...and they pull all of our money
out and our stock market plummets and it's in the Shepherd's Rod" ----
this is not at all mentioned in 'Shepherd's Rod '95, '96, '97 or '98 on Bob Jones' website except for one brief reference, [from http://www.zebra.net/~msos/BJSR1998.htm, at the time of the writing of this Rebuke] -- "The blood also has the implication of the beginning of economic shaking. We will not see the collapse of the economy during this year but we will see considerable shaking that will erode the foundations of trust within people." This statement is much different than "our stock market plummets" Furthermore, Shepherd's Rod 1998 would have been made in Oct--about 9 months after this tape was made. Jone's Shepherd's Rods are now at http://www.bobjones.org/shepherdsrod.html, although 1996 is not up for some reason.
Bob Jones also prophesied a related prophecy. This one was in free-verse poetic form, given at Cross Roads, Hamilton, Ontario, on March 8, 1998. The ‘free-verse’ was so long it would be cumbersome to reproduce here (I'm assuming the e-mail, written by someone who was in the congregation during the prophecy, is accurate/complete enough for this report). It lasted about 45 minutes. However, many running themes that were said at the Dec. 31st ‘words for the coming times’ meeting were repeated during this ‘free verse’. There was some similar language from a recent Shepherd's Rod (i.e. ‘rain on your brain’). Also, there was an inference in this prophecy of the 50’s being brought back, including great healing miracles (Latter Rain was in the 50’s). This has been mentioned more than once in the Shepherd’s Rods we have read and in the tapes we listened to.
However, of special interest for our purposes in the description of the Body of Christ contained in this section of the ‘free-verse’:
"For now I work on bringing forth my body.
I have brought forth my head.
My leadership I have already got upon the earth
And my purpose now you see is for my leadership to feed my body.
For my body is like a baby
And my leadership is like a grown head upon a baby's body.
So everything I do now in my leadership will be to feed my body of Christ
So that they may grow up and possess the gates of the enemy
For have I not said continually in my word
That their children would inherit the earth
And the earth in that day,
When my justice comes in a mighty way
Will bless them
For I will only destroy the world you see and its corruption
But the earth will remain and I will bless it.
And your children will inherit it….."
Here, MorningStar’s prophecy that the children of this generation are special is repeated. Also, this prophecy can be directly related to the god-man with the Moravian Falls prophecy, since that is also a discussion of the ‘Body’. I believe it’s safe to say that the ‘head’ Bob Jones referred to would not be Christ, but the ministry—More specifically the prophetic leadership. He may mean the leadership at Moravian Falls in specific or the leadership of the Church at large.
In either case, it is vital that this be tested against Scripture:
And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all. Eph 1:22-23
As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves, and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him, who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love. (Eph. 4:12-16)
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
Another point of interest is a prediction of the Lord delaying his return (quoting again):
"For it is the last days but it is not immediately. You'll see the 2000's, the 2010's, 2020's, 2030's. So make long range plans. Yep. For I tell you, you’re not going to fly away right away. But you're coming and going to raise up the body of Christ that will inherit, and that my glory will abide upon thee. And sickness, sin and poverty will not be able to stand in your presence you see. And the gods that men have worshiped will fall down and bow down to thee. Including doctors and lawyers and psychologists and philosophers. They shall come to acknowledge me in thee…"
Below is some brief descriptions taken from the MorningStar website (URL's noted):
From: http://www.morningstarministries.org/MSPBDec97.htm (no longer available)
The Moravian Falls Project. This includes our center for 24-hour worship, a Teaching Center, and a Prophetic Community, The Sabbath Rest Center, the International Fellowship Center, Youth Camp, as well as the home of MorningStar Ministries, the MorningStar Fellowship of Ministries, and the MorningStar Fellowship of Churches (more on this project is included in the special report on our MorningStar Ministries News Section).
You may designate your contributions for any of these funds just by marking 1, 2, 3 or 4 on your check or envelope. Contributions not specifically designated will be prayerfully placed where we believe that they are needed at the time. 100% of designated donations will go to these projects, as MorningStar does not keep any portion for administrative costs. There is no minimum amount required to be a part of MorningStar MST. We greatly appreciate those of you who do serve with us by your regular support.
ARE WE GOING TO BE SELLING LOTS, CABINS AND HOMES IN MORAVIAN FALLS?So they are asking for donations/contributions from everyone, and then they intend to sell the results? And even better (or is it worse?) they will only sell to those whose "purpose for having property here fits with the vision of the community" - and guess who gets to decide that?Yes. There will be some conditions since this is not intended to be just a Christian community, but a ministry base. We therefore can only sell to those whose purpose for having property here fits with the vision of the community. If you would like additional information, please write or fax our office, but we ask that only serious potential buyers inquire at this time.
For an idea of just how much money Morningstar is raking in, so much so that the local government officials of Wilkes, N.C. denied them group tax-exempt status, see the Sept, 2000 updates on the RICK JOYNER AND CHARISMA MAGAZINE addendum.
Is it a cult?
In the same bulletin as Joyner's announcement that yes, he will sell lots, cabins, and homes in Moravian Falls (above), he included a brief explanation of what a cult is. This portion of what a cult is preceded his defense of freemasonry. Although Joyner gives some of the more obvious basic indicators of what a cult is, he may not be taken seriously by some. If someone already thought of him as a 'cult leader', and/or as having joined a cult such as the Masons, how then would they expect him to know what a 'cult' is? Therefore, it may be helpful if we make outside observations and comments. We will include more complete explanation on the nature of cults, plus an indicator of spiritual abuse as it pertains to the spiritual authority structure.
Over the years, we have met and ministered to victims of spiritual and other kinds of abuse in a confidential manner. These include not just cult members, but also church members. These include ministers who were spiritually abused by members of their hierarchy, or even their congregation or other associates. We continue to make a thorough study of the individual and group dynamics that are involved, as related to Scripture. Some of the dynamics are similar to what is often found in cults, and some are similar to what might be found in 'dysfunctional' families.
From the public indicators thus far, we would not call the Moravian Falls Project or MorningStar a full-blown cult. Unlike Joyner, however, we would not base this on the fact that all cults are centered around a particular leader. (For the sake of documentation, his explanation on this is reproduced in full, here, which is the FAQ section from what was once published at http://www.morningstarministries.org/mspbapr98.htm.
In cults, blatant one-person rule is often the case, just as Rick Joyner says. Those who surround this one person are only those whom he has given token authority to. This might become more and more obvious. However, we have found that the appearance of team leadership with mutual accountability is sometimes just that: an appearance only. Actual accountability can break down if one or more of the members becomes above accountability, which can be done both by attitude and action.
Jesus taught a humility toward all of our brothers and sisters in Him, regardless of their perceived 'status'. This protects us from excessively narrowing down whom we will listen to. Only answering to 'God', as Rick Joyner says, can be a very dangerous limitation. We could also only answer to our 'perceived peers', and limit and tightly control those 'peers'. We could listen to them in spite of their unwise counsel, simply because we over-estimate their qualifications. We could also refuse to become accountable to others 'outside' of the people we have 'chosen' to be accountable to. (If you insulate yourselves with only your 'yes' men, is that real accountability to the Body of Christ? Or is it selective accountability?)
To that end, if we were someone who would become unaccountable in any real sense, we might say or do various things. One of those might be to make ourselves only available for correction by those who are 'leaders in the church'. We could then proceed to pick and choose whom we recognize as 'true leaders', according to our own suspect standards. We might then call everyone else we want to ignore, 'non-leaders'. This is especially true if we are the ones picking them out and establishing them within our local congregation! Because we are someone who has given ourselves authority to decide who is 'leaders in the church' or even 'outside the church' and who is not, we have already moved beyond any true accountability. It is only a matter of time.
(Inserted UPDATE: The above and below paragraphs were written well before Rick Joyner's exchanges with Charisma magazine. Excessive defensiveness, especially the kind that functions with qualities such as evasiveness, counter-attack, baseless blaming, deflecting or accusing, and dismissals. In our opinion, a lot of this attitude has indeed been exhibited by Joyner, and this has been continueously substantiated)
Either way, it is folly to make ourselves the decider of to whom we should listen, according to subjective standards and 'qualifications' that may have little to do with real, viable standards. It matters less 'who', but rather to 'what' (principles and standards) you are accountable. This is why the apostolic always held up the standard (the purity of the Gospel/the Word of God/character of God), and stuck to that. Anyone who brought 'correction' was discerned not by whether they were 'leaders' (in anyone's estimation) but by the standard they upheld. The standard is upheld and we are all judged by it, instead of ignoring the standard due to our 'judgment' (estimation) of the person or persons bringing the standard or the persons being challenged with the standard. If not for these gospel standards, the Apostle Paul would not have withstood his attackers via the false apostles in 1 and 2 Corinthians.
In addition to this, there is the very real problem of false appearances. Churches or fellowships that have been infiltrated by a kind of Christian witchcraft - one-person rule may be present yet not known. Derek Prince describes this in one of his teachings about witchcraft and manipulation. He tells of a pastor who would make no decisions without first calling a woman from another state to receive a ‘word’ from the Lord (her methodology was to land her finger on the Bible and ‘prophesy’ from there). Therefore, we cannot say that one can fully rely on an obvious one-person rule to establish whether a fellowship has some cult-like factors, or is in danger of becoming a cult. We can not rely on what it looks like on the outside, any more than the apostles said to (2 Corinth. 11:13-15). Appearances alone are often just that. They are too often a 'front' or deception.
Some more information about cult leaders and cults
We cannot hold to a simplistic definition of cults and expect to be protected from them. We have held to quick definitions of cults for 20 years now, and yet during that same time we as Americans continue to experience an explosion of them in sheer numbers, even amongst Christians and others who become deceived by Bible-based cults. People have been known to spend a decade or more in them before emerging out of them, damaged and devastated. Surely it is worth a more in-depth look and explanation.
As we have said, in cults and other spiritual abuse situations, the ‘cult leader’ places himself beyond accountability. Part of the way he does this is to impress his followers with his special knowledge or abilities. In Bible-based cults, those who teach or ‘prophesy’ have a special truth or revelation that eventually allows them to supercede both Scripture and the concerns of the Body of Christ.
Deception is definitely the art of the cult leader. Cult leaders engage in deception in a variety of ways, apparently perfecting their deceptive practices along the way according to what works. They engage in the twisting of truth and/or the outright telling of lies, a sort of 'smoke and mirrors' game. All endeavors are orchestrated to gain and maintain a power-base of loyal followers or supporters. Some, for instance, falsify healings. Others might give ‘words of knowledge’ after gathering factual information beforehand. The ‘knowledge’ has not been gained by any special supernatural abilities of the leader, but rather by ordinary human methods. A cult leader may even manipulate his followers to gather or reveal knowledge to him ahead of time, before his 'show'. The cult leader's greatest special ability is the ability to effectively deceive.
The goal of these various deceptions is to impress people and to accomplish an exaltation of some kind. In Christian-based cults, it could be a kind of messianic or other 'special leader like Jesus/martyr' fantasy. It could be a 'spokesman of God' fantasy with a emphasis of 'end-time' importance. It could be a lot of things with a Christian or Biblical emphasis. Indeed, the emphasis could be a 'truth' that is exaggerated beyond what the Bible ever intended.
Because of their needs and inner desires, cult leaders enjoy exaltation and excessive compliments. Followers learn that in order to gain the social acceptance of the group and/or leader(s), they should hold the leader in high regard like everyone else does. It has been documented that this does not have to be forced exaltation; they simply comply with the group dynamics or peer pressure. This exaltation is also reinforced by the cult leaders in various manipulative ways.
In the end, the cult leader has gained power, desired status, and a sense of importance. Those who join them also feel this sense of specialness. After gaining power, it is not uncommon for cult leaders and their organizations to practice deception on a grander scale. For instance, the ‘inner circle’ of devotees will know what is going on inside the community, while the outside world is lied to. When this begins, the followers and leaders become more and more isolated. Information to and from the cult becomes more and more tightly controlled. At that point, it becomes easier for cults to actively recruit, because they are able to present a false front to those whom they recruit.
In developing cults, the beginning of deception or misrepresentation of what is presented on the 'outside', as compared to what is actually on the 'inside' most often begins as soon as any scrutiny begins. This is because appearances, saving face, and the continued loyalty of followers has long ago become too important. Indeed, by the time a false front for the outside world is completely constructed and put in place, cult members themselves have been treated to double-messages, confusing contradictions (even if slight), reversals, and hypocrisy within their organization. They have already witnessed or participated in 'covering up' or concealing the hard truth about their organization, group, or leader. They have somehow been convinced that this is the noble or pious thing to do, for the sake (sacrifice) of the leader, the cause, and the protection of their 'community' . Therefore, it becomes no additional 'stretch' for them to continue to misrepresent the 'group' toward the outside world, even if that includes out and out lies and flagrant deception. For them, they have been systematically de-sensitized to the nature of their actions and the actions of their leaders, due to the confusion that reversals and misinformation generate, and the lack of absolute truth or integrity. They are soon participating in the group's 'disinformation campaigns' in response to the scrutiny that began it. Those who cannot abide by these practices leave if they can find the strength to reject what they have emotionally invested in, or if they can escape without harm, and some decide escape is worth the price. The rest become more and more firm in these 'double-minded' dynamics.
The purpose and goals of Moravian Falls are publicly stated on MorningStar’s website. Therefore they cannot at all be accused of attaining the level of secrecy (regarding the stated objectives about Moravian Falls) so necessary to full-blown cults. Because of Rick Joyner, we know the site will be built on donations from anyone who wants to donate, and then sold for an unspecified profit. We know that not everyone will be allowed into Moravian Falls, depending on a vague description of ‘whose purpose for having property here fits with the vision of the community’. A cult would not be so open about these types of intentions -- intentions that many Christians might find disturbing. Indeed, it is not an exaggeration to say that a full-fledged cult would probably not even pay the young people to work at the site, as MorningStar states it will do. Instead, a cult would probably prefer to have labor donated by youngsters who would then work under slave conditions.
We will end this section about Moravian Falls with an excerpt from “Cults in Our Midst” by Margaret Thaler Singer from pp.39-40, during her discussion of the 1960’s communities or communes, for informational purposes:
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