Copyright 1998-1999 Teri Lee Earl
** Note: If quoting from this article please do us the courtesy of linking back to it if by internet, or publishing our main URL: http://www.harvestnet.org and/or the specific URL: http://www.harvestnet.org/lookback/godmanDec97.htm along with the quote.
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Ancillary article to this rebuke on this site, is "Trouble in Prophet Land". If curious as to why this remains on our website, please see the following page: Why the Open Rebuke to Rick Joyner and Morningstar Remains Published. This was written after the April 2001 Charisma magazine article about Rick Joyner. Our additional updates are on this page.
PROPHETIC MANDATE -- LEVELS OF INTEGRITY, TRUTHFULNESS, AND RESPONSIBILITY
This article is an open, public, rebuke. We did not come to this decision lightly or easily. The final decision to go forward with this article was a joint decision with the European Prophetic College, and a few of our close friends who had participated and prayed about it. We realize that the ministry we will rebuke below has blessed many people. That includes some of us who were directly related to the production of this article.
We understand that some will not understand how we could come to this point, nor will they agree with the appropriateness of an open rebuke. This introduction is to outline the process of our decision. It will also establish that the ministry in question has itself mentioned (and we agree with Biblical precedent), that an open rebuke is sometimes necessary.
NOTICE: We have printed this article out, minus the addendums and supporting links, and have sent it to a viable fax # at Morningstar Ministries (time and date and other specifics given at end of article). Any and all responses we receive regarding this open rebuke, as well as whatever conversations may ensue, will most likely be published here as well.
This article has been in progress and consideration since approximately May of 1998. At that time, we discovered there was a 'missing section' in the widely circulated internet version of a prophecy tape from a popular American prophetic ministry. We listened to the original tape ourselves to verify the missing section. We were fairly certain that there would develop some controversy due to the contents of the tape and our personal discernment regarding the prophecies therein, even without our involvement. We also knew that the contents of this tape was more than about this prophecy. It was also about the state of the recent highly publicized 'American prophetic movement'.
The Lord delayed us in the final production of this article. We gathered
the facts, and then were led to put it on the shelf for many, many months.
The joint decision to move forward with an open, public rebuke was reached
because of the following factors (listed in order of known development):
| 1. | The evidence of a focus on 'levels of anointing' and prophetic
gifts, using compare and contrast language. This is important because it
is appearing all over the world via the Internet, and is subtly becoming
connected to 'the prophetic' by ministries who have been perceived, either
by themselves or others, as 'bringing back the prophetic' to the Body of
Christ. This makes the stakes high.
First of all, levels: As many evangelicals know and already object to, Rick Joyner does mention 'levels' in his popular book, The Final Quest. During their objection, most refer to the vision itself containing 'levels' --- but we are not referring to that. An excellent discussion of the introduction to the vision -- pp. 9-12 of 'The Final Quest'-- can be found at A Review and Critique of THE FINAL QUEST by Eric S. Weiss (URL: http://www.geocities.com/papaweiss1/tfq.htm). Here, Eric alerts the reader that Joyner equates a certain 'level' of prophetic revelation -- one that is influenced by prejudices and doctrines -- to the epistles of the New Testament. During this same section, Joyner equates 'trances' on the highest level and relates that to other parts of the Bible, for instance what was recorded in the book of Revelations (pp. 10-11 of 'The Final Quest'). We had misgivings upon reading this section in the book ourselves. This was not only because of the treatment of the divine inspiration of Scripture, which was questionable. We were also highly concerned regarding the treatment of the supposed strength of prophetic 'gifts', using the obvious compare and contrast language of 'levels' (Eric's critique discusses this Biblically). It was clear to this author that if one were to actually take this 'teaching' in Rick's book to heart, there would be the danger of prophetically gifted people comparing and contrasting the strength or 'level' of their revelations or anointings. This would lead to carnality and lack of discernment due to false pretenses over prophetic 'levels' that supposedly cannot be questioned as being either adversely influenced or just plain counterfeit. (Note: our discussion of 'The Final Quest' might generate questions about this author's viewpoint on the book, and the sequel, 'The Call'--Please go here for an answer to that later if you wish, but I do not want to detract from the main points of this article). Even a seemingly minor false belief can open the door to eventual major deception. Of course, the brief discussion of levels in the book does not necessarily mean the author or reader will act on it in this way! In fact, we assumed the reader might be more in danger of this than the author of the book (assuming a firmer Biblical foundation in the author's Christian 'prophetic' walk would develop or was developing, even if it wasn't obvious in the book). In fact, we never anticipated otherwise and dismissed our initial misgivings as minor. Unfortunately, our minor concerns were not unwarranted. It doesn't just appear in the book as a brief 'blip' across the screen. This obsession with 'levels' occurs in so many Internet references on Joyner's website and in so many of his writings in The MorningStar Journal, that it would be difficult to catalogue them all. Very frequently, he tells of a 'revelation on a higher level' in conjunction with his next announcements of prophecies. Introducing prophecies or 'revelations' in such a manner is inappropriate. It can manipulate the reader or listener to give more credence to the 'revelation' than it deserves. The Holy Spirit and the Word of God can testify to what is God's. Promises of a 'new level of greater anointing' just around the corner (often contingent on the new, recent, direction--for instance the King Arthur focus) might also be inappropriate. God does not need hype. The Spirit of God can be quenched but can not be worked up. Using compare and contrast language in talks of 'levels of anointing' is a tragedy amongst prophetic ministers. It has spilled across the Internet. For instance, the previous website at zebra.net gave two introductions, one for Bobby Connor and one for Bob Jones. For one, it said: "Bobby ministers in a high level and proven prophetic anointing..." whereas for the other, it said: "Bob Jones, a servant of God who is known for his special level of gifting in the prophetic ministry..." So, one is on a 'high level', whereas the other has a "special level". Although Joyner writes in his book, The Final Quest, that he "emphatically"
does not support using revelation to establish doctrine apart from what
is already in the Scripture (pp. 12-13), he may have in fact, done that
with this treatment of 'levels'. It may not be an 'official teaching' he
and MorningStar established, but it is an unofficial practice. A consistent
practice is as good as a doctrine. All focuses and emphasizes must be established
with Scripture, not upon a highly symbolic 'advancement' in a vision.
|
| 2. | Superfluous 'testimonies' or claims of 'accuracy' and 'profoundness' just prior to the prophetic gifting shared. Boasting of a proven record and 'anointing' need not come before or after the 'revelation'. This has the very real potential of manipulating the audience into 'bypassing' or ignoring their own discernment. In addition, Internet reports of prophecies are almost unanimously introduced with accolades over the prophetic minister, especially about the 'accuracy' of their prophecies. As you will see below, this is not exactly spontaneous. The beginnings of these boasts can be traced back to the ministers themselves! (You will see some of it also in the other report mentioned in #2, if you care to). Please study 1 and 2 Corinthians, and especially 2 Corinth. 3:1, to see what the Apostle Paul has to say about it. There will be a small commentary on 'accuracy' and Biblical standard, included toward the end of this article. |
| 3. | The development of the Round Table, detailed in the report, "Trouble
in Prophet Land" - A brief tracing of the infiltration of King Arthur's
legend, the Merlin spirit, Knighthood and the like into sections of U.S.
'Prophetic' Christianity. (A footnote: You might notice Joyner's treatment
of those who have trances vs. those who have visions in the quotes in this
article) This article was written primarily for documentation value, to
complement the well-researched articles by Lars Widerberg:
Prophetic position: The spirit of Camelot - a denial of holiness and Covenants and Chivalry (no longer made available) |
| 4. | Stated intentions to emphasize 'predicting' (their word used in some
of their tapes) the future, even more than they do now:
Quoted from "Letter from Rick" (from The Morning Star Journal Volume 9 Number 1, 1999 page 1, by Rick Joyner) "It is our goal to see The Morning Star Journal improve significantly each year. To us, the word "improve" means growing closer to God. For The Journal to improve, it must become a clearer reflection of what is on His heart. This is always our chief goal - not just to print good articles, but to express His heart. To do this better, it is now time to implement two new emphases for future editions. The first is to become more prophetically oriented. While we have always intended to do this, now is the time. Although the prophetic section may not necessarily be any longer, the articles throughout each edition of our publication will have a more prophetic emphasis. Our ultimate goal is to accurately write the news before it happens. This is not for the purpose of entertainment, nor to obtain more subscribers, but because we are entering times when we must see clearly into the future if we are going to be adequately prepared. We are still growing in this area, and we now have many friends and associates with proven prophetic gifts and ministries to whom we will be giving more of a platform in future editions of The Journal." MorningStar's consistent exaltation of what they call 'words of knowledge' results in the typification that this ability to predict sums up the 'prophetic'. This is cause for concern, especially in light of what this article will detail. Although today's psychics do emphasize seeing into the future to quell
fears or even to be prepared, there is no indication in Scripture
that this is the mandate (the 'job', or the main purpose) of the prophetic
Christian, or prophets, today. Each Christian has the Holy Spirit and therefore
the ability to be led by God directly for their personal life. In
fact, the New Testament commands that we seek the Lord's will
in our affairs before we plan (not a prophet, like it was in the OT) (James
4:13-17).
|
It was at this point that the European Prophetic College, in conjunction with us, decided that an open, public, rebuke was in order, across the Internet, a medium that these "American Prophets" also use. This is not an internal church concern, but a national and international concern. It does not concern private sin, but public error. Practices such as these lead and teach by example, leaving an imprint on the Christian community in America and abroad. With no public objection these activities could be construed as 'acceptable'. If those who are 'prophetic' are silent, then we agree by a nod of our head and by our apathy.
It is important therefore for prophetic people and others of the prophetic community to object (and objections are not allowed on tightly controlled moderated e-mail lists), so that it is made clear that these things do not reflect upon nor are condoned by all. Neither are they Biblically justified.
Before we begin, we will quote from Rick Joyner regarding the appropriateness of public confrontation (quote is from Sounding the Trumpet series, from the same series as the tape we will focus on, "Words For the Coming Times" tape #3):
(Biblical reference to this quote would be Acts 15:1-12)
--------------------------------------------------
In April of this year (1998), a copy of "Words For The Coming Times by Bob Jones & Rick Joyner" was forwarded to us from another list. This particular version was prepared and transcribed from the "Prophetic tape of the month" by Josiah Friberg, and then shortened by Robert I. Holmes (previously found at: http://www.creativityplus.com/carney/prop981.htm). The prophetic word was given during a New Year's Eve service on December 31, 1997. Copyright MorningStar Ministries.
This Internet version of Bob Jones' words included an accurate synopsis
of the following portions of his words:
| I. | WARNING TO SPOUSES, ESPECIALLY HUSBANDS |
| II. | WE HAVE ABOUT NINE MONTHS OF PREPARATION (JAN-SEP) TO PUT ON CHRIST |
| III. | THE WHITE HORSE HAS BEEN RUNNING SINCE 1975. AIDS & VENEREAL DISEASES |
| IV. | GREAT EARTHQUAKES, SUITCASE NUCLEAR BOMBS, VOLCANOES, VIRUSES, ECONOMIC COLLAPSE, GEOGRAPHIC SHAKING & RESHAPING, FLOODS, ETC. WHEN WILL THIS NATION REPENT? |
| V. | WHAT SHOULD WE DO TO PREPARE FOR THE COMING JUDGMENT & TRIBULATION? |
There was no URL given on Internet reports for a full transcript of the tape. The words by Bob Jones were not presently available on Bob Jones' website (then at: http://www.zebra.net/~msos/BJwords.htm), as far as we could find.
What was our interest in this tape?
Instead of focusing on the earthquakes and other prophecies, we were interested in the end-time teaching or scenario being offered. This was important because of what the Lord had previously spoken to us a few years ago.
Bob Jones and Rick Joyner gave the prophetic word(s) in question during a New Year's Eve service on December 31, 1997, copyright MorningStar Ministries.
As was mentioned before, a friend of ours sent us the tape, alerting us to the fact that an important part of the ‘word’ on the tape was not mentioned in the written report. Therefore, the following will contain some quotes that were not mentioned or were missing completely in other Internet versions of this "word for the coming times." The parts that the public may already be familiar with if they've read the earlier Internet versions are very briefly mentioned in parenthesis.
It is important to show where certain subjects were mentioned in the
tape, to give an overview of what was covered and when. This gives
a workable scope and sequence of the prophecy. This is important because
the ‘missing’ piece of the prophecy was at the end of the build-up of other
prophecies. A RealAudio rendition of the tape can be found at: http://www.christianword.org/rasermon/newyears.ram
Here is the exact quote from Bob Jones at the beginning of the tape. Please note Rick Joyner's closing emphasis, at the end.
"Now the next thing. Prophets stand at a great window, and they SEE (emphasis by Jones) what's gonna happen in the world. And for many years, I've stood at a window, and I've come and told a lot of you what was gonna happen. But the Lord has said this: "Step out of the winda, into it. The vision that I've spoke many years, are not gonna delay any more." Keith has got a message about -- You've got about 9 months of preparation -- Of putting on Christ for what's gonna happen. I don't believe we've got 'til the year 2000. I think some of this is already gonna be happening I don't believe we got 9 months. And this Mammoth Lake and things like that these things are gonna happen. Some of that's gonna happen before that. The trembling and all this is gonna happen. Some of the major things won't happen for 9 months."
This introduces the 'body' of the prophecies, which were primarily
about earthquakes and other natural disasters. For a short period immediately
after this quote, Jones deviates from the theme of earthquakes, as He discusses
'the white horse' in Revelations. (FOOTNOTE 1: Jones
was referring to Rev. 6:2 in this tape's context)
"The ‘White Horse’ in Revelation that Jim was talking about--when did he start runnin'? I'm gonna tell ya what the Lord spoke to me about Revelations a lot of years ago. He said, "I haven't released much of the understanding on the book of Revelations yet. But what the Church hadn't seen is the book of Revelations is a love letter to the Bride. Mmm hmmm ... He's dealing with sin there and He's purifying Him a Bride in that time. So I see it as a Love Letter to the Bride. My Daddy has waited 6,000 years for those that He's foreknown and predestined. They were anywhere from 4 to probably 12, but these are what Pappa has waited for, for 6,000 years. My Daddy's wanted a generation of priests and kings. My Daddy's big enough to have His way in any storm. What He wants is your children and He wants your heart first so you'll raise them children right. The White Horse in Revelations when did he run? I was told what the white horse was in 1975. Satan was on him and riding him and he was called 'Heroin' or crack cocaine, or drugs. Pharmacia, sorcery, the magical arts. And he went forth conquering. He didn't need a sword. Heroin is called, 'Horse'. When did he start to run? He justified all type of immorality where people could get high and do whatever their evil heart desired. Also at the same time He told me there would be a venereal disease among homosexuals that could not be cured..."(FOOTNOTE 2: Bob Jones has been quoted as saying he first saw a white horse with the angel Gabriel on it, in the 70's)
(Jones speaks of Midwest city disasters, and continues with):
"There are gonna be cities leveled (words unintelligible) but they can warn, be warned, and only those that want to be there can be there. Now I can't stop the leveling of it, but I can tell you this: God will warn. He will warn those cities. I been telling people for years to get out of Los Angeles ... If I lived in Los Angeles I'd get out..."
(Then he continues for some time about cup nearly full for CA. Earthquakes:
CA. splitting apart, suitcase bombs coming into CA ... CA. breaking apart
into the sea, Mammoth lake trouble ... Mississippi fault line ... Great
Lakes dumping into Mississippi becoming 35 miles wide ... and disasters
for cities like Chicago...) (FOOTNOTE 3: Jones
uses accurate earthquake-related terminology in his prophecies,which is
different than the well-known William Branham California earthquake prophecy)
... "Even before this happens, our economy gets destroyed with a great
earthquake in Japan, Tokyo..."
(FOOTNOTE 4: Japan's Toqai Prediction
Committee does expect a major earthquake soon)
"...and they pull all of our money out and our stock market plummets and it's in the Shepherd's Rod" ----
Somewhere in the very long section about earthquakes, Bob Jones describes
witnessing an earthquake that he states he predicted:
"Back in the early 70’s I've known about the earthquakes and I’ve even spoke that a earthquake would take place in Mexicalli and Caliente, and it did—happened a few months later. All of us Rick, all of us saw the earthquake that's comin’ in California, but we always said they would come in two. And the first one come is a warning and I was in it and it shook just about like that, for a second. And I think, "Well that wasn't too bad". And then the Lord says "Watch this one"" and it shook for nearly five minutes, and the rocks and all the valleys become liquefied where everything that was in it would sank. And the houses that were built up high they went into it."" (then continues about other predictions of earthquakes and some about pornography.)
(Next comes a section on a famine of hearing the Word of God.
Admonishments to 'grow up' and get the Word yourself in your prayer closets
-- Then bring them up on stage here and we'll confirm it/explain it to
you. Bob Jones describes people - especially women - hanging on him looking
for a word or ministry while he was praying over a woman missionary for
healing.)
He then continues with what was reported by previous e-mail transcript
released by MorningStar:
"... themselves and to put on Christ. Quit chasing prophets! And start treating them like human beings like the rest of you. That's what we are. We can't function if you treat us like that. Fifty years ago Israel came into being. First comes the natural, then comes the spiritual. He is bringing forth the spiritual Israel of God right now...in a covenant wedding. Your eyes mustn't be on the gifts any more, but on the Giver. Your eyes mustn't be on things any more, but on the Creator. This is a Jubilee year! It's been 50 years. And it's time that you get out of jail. I believe you have been in prison in your dependency upon man. And God is saying "Start depending upon Me." "I'm bringing My bride forth now, but she's going to have to depend on Me; I'm the Husband. And whatever she needs, I'll furnish it." "I'm going to give you My heart. I'm now going to begin to DO My Word. I have given My Word.' Since 1975, when the white horse began to run, and the red horse has been running ever since Anwar Sadat was killed"...
Sometime between the promise of furnishing the Bride, and the sentence
which promises to give ‘My heart’, comes a significant section which was
completely
left out in all Internet reports we were aware of. It is significant
because it seems to be the apex of all Bob Jones has said before.
The scope and sequence of this tape is important, and so we will briefly recap: So far his running theme has included the following: the coming natural disasters, not to fear but to prepare, listen and move, the generation God has been waiting for 6,000 years, God preparing us, and various admonishments to the local congregation and abroad not to depend on prophets (with encouragement to bring their prophecies up to the MorningStar leaders on stage, so they can "confirm it for you".)
Now, this is the missing apex, which happens to be at the end of Bob
Jones’ sermon on the tape:
Quote:
"I see Charlotte as the head of a great man--a god man. I see Moravian Falls as the heart. The heart and the head. And I believe you're gonna see much to come to the head here. I've seen that god-man lay down in many places and I believe that Atlanta and other places are like the chest so you're gonna see greater things happenin' there. But they're going to happen here through the head and the heart. So I believe the Lord is going to speak in Moravian Falls to bring His heart and to reveal His will. And you'll get that understanding as soon as He gives that. They'll come here 'n teach you. It's time you grow up and go places and teach others. And you should already have part of it yourself to where it really confirms it to you. One of the hands I saw is going to go all the way into Fla. to Orlando. The other one's going to Canada. One of the feet specially are going to go to Nashville very shortly. The right feet and you're going to hear praise that will bring forth awesome faith---and bring forth an awesome evangelistic army. And I believe this is only the beginning of you stretching out -- to where you begin to stretch out to all the world. But He's gonna give you His heart, which He's audibly spoke: "I'm going to give My Heart to you" Hebrews 10: 16 "And I'm going to begin to change you." And He's told me, "I'm now going to do my Word" I have given My Word and He has I believe since 1975. I believe that's when the white horse begin to run, and the red horse has been running ever since Anwar Sadat was killed... "(FOOTNOTE 6: Bob Jones's gave a supporting prophecy to a Canadian congregation, during the same year)
(FOOTNOTE 7: Joyner described Moravian Falls, which is to include MorningStar Fellowship of Churches in Dec. '97 MSPB)
(FOOTNOTE 8: results of investigation on how the Internet prophecy edited out this portion, proved inconclusive)
Shortly after this, Joyner immediately follows Bob Jones with his full
support (Joyner's slight emphasis on words are highlighted):
"Bob has in my opinion of anyone that I know the most accurate ministry in predicting such things as earthquakes but other events as well ... Predicting their date, even the San Francisco earthquake. He predicted the time of it. He predicted that it would be 7 on the Richter scale, and a number of other things that all happened. One thing we never understood until it happened was that he said the whole world would witness that quake. Of course, we couldn't figure that out, but the whole world was tuned into the "world" series when that quake took place, and many other things. But the Lord is revealing this is a very sober time. This really is a sober time. There is a change going on. You've heard a lot of things tonight but there's a shifting there's a different way that they're being spoken, there's a different anointing because these things really are about to come to pass. We do have some time to get ready. You know, if we obey the Lord, if we repent, and if we obey the Lord ... the key is repentance of everything that is not in perfect harmony with him. And if we're in harmony with God, it doesn't matter if we're in ground zero... There's no place that is safe other than the will of God..."
"We've been chosen to live in these times. And I believe our children...are in the forefront. They are that generation...they are a chosen generation. We have been very poor at being able to transmit the Words that the Lord has given us. We've spoken them at conferences sometimes, and a lot of people were hearing them but as far as getting them out in a general way, we have not done a very good job of that and that was God's grace. That really was His grace because had they gone out with, in some ways, with power and authority behind them, the accountability would've been so much greater and the judgment therefore so much greater. Okay, but God is gonna to start establishing His Words with great power, great authority, and we are going to be accountable. We've got to grow up because these things really are going to pass now..."
(then tells of prophetic things that he said to Wall Street Journal person that came true, New Zealand newspapers that interviewed him and how it was printed and the things came true, etc. etc., and how he asked God why there's not been things like this printed in Wall Street Journal and happening in U.S. How God said, "When they start printing it, it's going to be because, economic judgment is imminent")
"...Have you noticed that movies are far more prophetic than even the Body of Christ today? And it's been that way for years, and I take responsibility for this as much as anything, but it is because God has not had a credible, prophetic ministry that He could speak through! There's so much flakiness! We have prophesied so many times, so many things, from our own minds and our own hearts. And I know people who really are seeing these things right now. They feel like Jim did before he got up here, like Bob and everyone else who say, "Look, everybody's been saying this for years and years, and it has not been true, and has not been God and it has not come to pass, but now it is and if we say it nobody's going to believe us!" But I tell you that at the same time the true warnings are going out, there will be an abundance of warnings that are from the enemy, that are from the enemy..." (then discusses Paul and the demonized girl in Acts...)..."
"...Be sober. Search these things out. Listen, there are warnings. Believe me, loud, clear warnings, from the Spirit of God going forth in these times. It's real. It is Him. Maybe repentance will delay it more, I hope so. Let's don't waste that time. 'Til now, I believe He's constantly said, "Okay I'll delay some more", but we have not used the time. We've just backslidden more and more...I was thinking 20 years ago... when Jamie and Carol went around the country with those, "If My People" concerts....But, when they went around the country, the Lord showed me back then, these people going around getting these people to pray to this degree are gonna delay my judgment...There was enough repentance. We don't know, as Abraham said, "Lord if there's ten righteous will you spare the place...We don't know what it's gonna take...But they gave us more time. Lord also showed me, when I was out there that we did not use the time. We're not using it, it is not helping us, for the Lord to give us any more time. So, whatever He gives us right now, do not delay any longer. Get your houses in order. Get your houses in order." (then speaks about healings from God in the case of antibiotics that no longer work...)
"...(Ps. 32--Seek the Lord...)... We believe the Lord's shown us, that we do have until at least November, before the real serious stuff starts to break out. There's gonna be some serious stuff, but I mean the really bad stuff. And then He may say, "Okay you got 'til next year" We don't know, but we believe He said this year, okay, I'm giving you this year. I'm not gonna waste it...Know God. Seek the Lord...We've got to do it, folks." (Joyner then prays many different prayers until end of tape)--------------------------------------------------------
Here is a quote from Rick Joyner from his Prophetic Roundtable notes, taken from The Morning Star Journal Volume 9 Number 2 1999, pages 63-67, approximately a full year and a half after the tape by him and Jones. The meeting of the 'Roundtable' was not taped, according to Joyner's notes. It included comments on other subjects. Nevertheless Rick Joyner makes an announcement about the California Earthquake here:
---------------
The California Earthquake
"I would like to apologize for the tape of our New Year's meeting that was released last year with some statements on it that were easy to misunderstand. On that tape, Bob Jones made the statement that "we had until October;" and this was interpreted by some that the earthquake would come in October of 1998. However; what Bob meant, and what he had said previously, was that the Lord said that He would show him each October if it would come in the next year; and that it would not come before October. This past October; Bob was not shown that the earthquake was coming this year; so we believe that we have at least that long before "the big one" comes.
However; we do still believe that an earthquake is coming to California that will be the most devastating in our nation's history. We also believe that the magnitude and the damage can be lessened by repentance. We do not know what point the repentance must reach to do this, or if a little repentance will lessen it some, and a lot of repentance will lessen it more. The earthquake is coming because of the spiritual pollution that is coming out of California. Several of us were shown a warning quake coming with certain characteristics that were all fulfilled by the last quake to hit the Los Angeles area. It was no accident that it was centered under pornographic studios there. It was a warning that if there is not repentance for the flood of spiritual and moral pollution coming out of California, the next time the earth will open and swallow the flood (see Revelation 12:15-16).
We have been inundated with questions from people about whether they should move from California or not. For years I have encouraged people to stay if they have not heard specifically from the Lord to leave; otherwise, who is going to lead the repentance? I must emphasize that I do not know anyone who has been given the timing of this quake. However; I now believe that if major revival and repentance do not begin soon, instead of Christians needing to hear from God to leave, I believe they should hear from God to stay.
I also believe that some are called to stay right through the quake. The Lord will send great ministries and powerful messages to California right up to the end. However; just as the Army Corp of Engineers proclaimed that they had tamed the mighty Mississippi River and had "straightened it and harnessed it" just before the great floods of 1993 came, when you hear men making great boasts about how they have made things earthquake-proof, these are prophesies from Satan which are intended to deceive and doom many. There is nothing that man can make that will stand what is coming. However; as Ecclesiastes 3:14 declares: "I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him." Let us, therefore, build our lives on that which will last.
(The Morning Star Journal Volume 9 Number 2 1999, pages 63-67)You can also read the MorningStar Prophetic Bulletin in June of 1998 which was on their website at: http://www.morningstarministries.org/mspbjun98.htm (no longer available), Joyner addresses the California earthquake prophecy (He does not address all the other unfulfilled prophecies) near the end under, "Frequently Asked Questions"
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Let us review the exact quotes of Jones, from the Dec. 31, 1997 tape, with Joyner there with him:
The statement on this particular tape clearly coincided with the body of prophecy, and there are no other statements on the tape about timing. He never mentioned the month of October at all throughout the tape. The clear indication was that Jones thought that WITHIN nine months, 'Mammoth lake' and other 'tremblings' (earthquakes) would happen, and at best we had 9 months for the 'big things' to happen -- Maybe up to the year 2000, which is only a few months away from the writing of this article. Such was Jones's belief that these disasters were imminent, that, in effect, he announced 'now is the time' at the beginning of the tape, for the things he had been saying before. He even strongly encourages people to move out of Los Angeles ("I've been telling people for years to get out of Los Angeles."), later. At one point, (not quoted), he said that they were not brave to stay.
"Now the next thing. Prophets stand at a great window, and they SEE (emphasis by Jones) what's gonna happen in the world. And for many years, I've stood at a window, and I've come and told a lot of you what was gonna happen. But the Lord has said this: "Step out of the winda, into it. The vision that I've spoke many years, are not gonna delay any more." Keith has got a message about -- You've got about 9 months of preparation -- Of putting on Christ for what's gonna happen. I don't believe we've got 'til the year 2000. I think some of this is already gonna be happening I don't believe we got 9 months. And this Mammoth Lake and things like that these things are gonna happen. Some of that's gonna happen before that. The trembling and all this is gonna happen. Some of the major things won't happen for 9 months."
Now, let us look again at Rick Joyner's immediate comment after the body of the prophecies, which did include but were not limited to the California earthquake prophecy:
"Bob has in my opinion of anyone that I know the most accurate ministry in predicting earthquakes but other events as well ... Predicting their date, even the San Francisco earthquake. He predicted the time of it. He predicted that it would be 7 on the Richter scale, and a number of other things that all happened. One thing we never understood until it happened was that he said the whole world would witness that quake. Of course, we couldn't figure that out, but the whole world was tuned into the "world" series when that quake took place, and many other things. But the Lord is revealing THIS IS THE TIME"...
If you thought of January to 9 months afterwards, you would come
up with October. But nevertheless none of the many foretold natural
disasters on this tape have come true to our knowledge. This, in spite
of Joyner's confidence that some of the serious stuff would happen
by that November (and it has been a year and a half). This, in spite of
Jones confident assertion that he didn't think we had long, and not until
the year 2000.
Because of the tape, heralded as for the Body, and the wide circulation the edited prophecy received via the Internet, it's not a surprise at all that MorningStar has been inundated with questions from people about whether they should move from California or not. The contents of the tape are extremely clear. Also, Bob Jones spoke confidently of the 'accuracy' of his ministry regarding earthquakes, and gave an example of himself witnessing an earthquake. This, with Joyner's full support at the end of the tape on Bob Jones' accuracy, plus the up to ten or more testimonies of many other specific prophecies by Jones/Joyner, would certainly re-emphasize the certainty of these events coming true. It was clear that their ministry was to warn the American people of the short time we had (since there had been no repentance). The title of the tapes were was indeed, 'Sounding the Trumpet.'
As a direct witness to the tape's contents, we cannot agree that the contents were misunderstood by these people writing to MorningStar, wondering not if, but WHEN they should move (within the nine months, presumably). If Jones later or earlier stated something else, then he flatly contradicted himself.
Still, we wondered if Joyner might be referring to the Shepherd's Rods, even though he does not say so. This is because he said something about Jones getting something each year. But none of the Shepherd's Rods that cover the appropriate time span just before or after Jones' announcement on December 31, 1997 contain anything about these quakes. The Shepherd's Rods are said to be received on Yom Kippur. Yom Kippur can be in either October or September depending on the year. Jewish feasts change their dates every year (all to do with New Moons and Sabbaths etc.). Yom Kippur in 1997 was Oct. 11, in 1998 it was Sept. 30, 1999 is Sept. 20, and in the coming year it will be October 9th! In any case, it's a little late to wait for the next Shepherd's Rod, unless the intention of God is to give us only 3 months to move from various parts of the country, before even ONE (pick one) of these many horrible natural disasters occurs, before the year 2000.
Finally, in spite of all evidence to the contrary in the tape by Jones and Joyner (99.99% of the tape's contents, approx. 45 minutes long), Joyner did make a weak assertion that God may say, "Okay you got til next year." If he meant that one should prophesy very specifically, and then reverse oneself at the end of the year (when it didn't happen), this would be unethical. The prophet is responsible for what he says came from the mouth of God. The prophet Jonah did not come forward to prophesy disaster to the city of Ninevah, and then reverse himself (and Jones did not do that, here). Nor did he have another prophet support him as the oracle of God, and yet also countermand the strength and certainty of his prophecy at the same time, if that is what Rick Joyner would say he has done on that tape. Or if that is what he's doing now.
But no, Jonah knew the requirement of God for repentance from the city of Ninevah, and he knew they had satisfied it. They satisfied the requirements and were spared, much to his consternation! (Jonah 3:1-10; 4:1) The prophet Jeremiah prophesied specifically, the events he knew would happen regardless of the king's or the people's responses, no matter what they did or said; he also prophesied what would happen if they responded to God's commands as He gave (Jeremiah 22:1-9; 39:15-18; chapters 42-44). There are so many Biblical examples of God saying, "If this, then that..." in very specific terms. Yet, there was no 'if' in this prophecy. In fact, Joyner said there was no window of repentance for the U.S.
If he meant to say that a prophet hears from God that one thing would happen and then it was relented by God later, without the prophet's foreknowledge, this could not be defended well either. The prophet Moses, the most humble man in the world at the time, interceded for the nations of Israel at the time of God's pronouncement against the people, and as he stood before the Lord then, he knew He had relented against destroying them (Numbers 14:11-20). Also, the prophet Samuel prayed all night for Saul, and God did not relent from His decision (1 Sam. 15:10-11). Yet Samuel met Saul with his mandate from the Lord, after having fully sought the Lord on the matter, and after having heard from Him fully on the matter.
The one thing that is clear in all of this, is that Joyner fully expects everyone to continue to wait upon Jones's yearly pronouncements, whenever they are, for the coming year. This in spite of the fact that MorningStar has changed its statement on their website on the Shepherd's Rods. The statement now says, "for the coming years", thereby strongly weakening the previous assertions that they were "for the coming year". So whether we believe Joyner's assertions or the changes on the website, how can we tell? More importantly, vagueness and generalities typify every Shepherd's Rod I know of. Jones's and Joyner's statements on the tape are more specific than any of that. Perhaps this was a miscalculation on their part, when it comes to later times when they must answer to the validity of their prophecies. Perhaps no timing should be given on anything, and nothing should be said with any specifics, with any certainty or any faith. But then that would be a universe of no absolutes and easy reversals.
MorningStar on grace, accuracy, and accountability
This turn of events is ironic in the face of MorningStar's frequent emphasis on it being okay to make a 'mistake', prophetically. They often preach grace toward the prophetic for their mistakes, and I have witnessed this. They have in fact been documented to de-emphasize Deuteronomy 18:20-22 scripture, in the Morning Star Prophetic Newsletter (quoted below):
(Quotes below are from Anton
Hein's site. These quotes are from the Prophetic Newsletter of MorningStar
Journal. I have witnessed these quotes circulated at least two years before,
but cannot pinpoint their date)
| One of the greatest hazards affecting maturing
prophets is the erroneous interpretation of the Old Testament exhortation
that if a prophet ever predicted something which did not come to pass he
was no longer to be considered a true prophet (see Deut. 18:20-22). The
warning was that if this happened, the prophet had been presumptuous and
the people were not to fear him. If one predicts something in the name
of the Lord and it does not come to pass, he probably has spoken presumptuously
and that needs to be repented of, but that does not make him a false prophet.
No one could step out in the faith required to walk in his calling if he
knew that a single mistake would ruin him for life.
The Prophetic Ministry, The Morning Star Prophetic Newsletter, Rick Joyner, n.d., Vol. 3, No. 2, pg. 2. |
Bob [Jones] was told that the general level of prophetic
revelation in the church was about 65% accurate at this time. Some are
only about 10% accurate, a very few of the most mature prophets are approaching
85% to 95% accuracy. Prophecy is increasing in purity, but there is still
a long way to go for those who walk in this ministry. This is actually
grace for the church now, because 100% accuracy in this ministry will bring
a level of accountability to the church, which she is too immature
to bear at this time; it would result in too many 'Ananias and Sapphiras.'
That so many the (sic) prophetic ministries are still missing so much is
also meant to work humility and wisdom in them so that they will be able
to handle the authority and power coming in the near future.
The Prophetic Ministry, The Morning Star Prophetic Newsletter, Rick Joyner, n.d., Vol. 3, No. 2, pg. 4 |
The second quote, a 'teaching' given during the same MorningStar Prophetic Newsletter of the first quote, cannot be defended by Scripture. It is in fact very similar to what is commonly taught amongst the psychics and New Agers. Psychics assert that as they get better at their craft, they are better able to 'transmit' or 'predict' as they increase in knowledge and power. That is why 'well-established' psychics are sought after more than the 'inexperienced' ones who have not yet spent as much time honing their skills and getting in touch with the 'higher being' or 'true inner-self', etc. etc.
Psychic ability is thought of as somewhat a gift but also a skill, and therefore it is assumed that those who have been at it longer will be better at it. There is nothing better for a psychic than to be able to say something they foretold did come true, or for a satisfied and impressed customer to say it for them. They will get more referrals and more business that way. But nothing of Christianity supports this idea. God used a well-known prophet as a CHILD (Samuel with Eli) with no 'developing' of his prophetic 'skills'. There is no indication at all in the Scripture that 'young prophets' are less 'accurate' than 'more developed' prophet. God is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. The gifts He gives are as timeless and 'mature' as He is. We have never known it otherwise. He does not need to give 'less accurate' or 'fake' Words in order to work humility in the prophet, as nice as that sounds. There's only one passage where God deliberately sent a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all the prophets of king Ahab, and even then His true prophet Micaiah was aware of His tactic (1 Kings 22, especially 19-23).
Also, the reference to Ananias and Sapphiras does not apply to accountability for the prophetic gifting. They were not judged in the early church because of any 'prophetic inaccuracy', but because of lying (bearing false witness) to the Holy Spirit. (Acts 5:1-11 vs. 4 especially).
The first quote refers to Deut. 18:20-22 below:
You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?"
If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
The Holy Bible, New International Version
The penalty under the Law in the Old Testament in Deuteronomy
18:20-22 is less than the penalty in Deut.
13:1-5. There, the prophet who encourages the people to follow after
other gods is to be immediately stoned. This gives us an understanding
of the seriousness of these offenses in God's eyes: The sin of adultery
once carried the penalty of death too, while another sin might only require
a person to stay outside the camp. One would have to research other Scriptures
in the Old Testament about prophesying presumptuously, in order to continue
the understanding of the seriousness of it in conjunction with 'false prophets'.
(Jer.
14:13-16; 23:16-32)
The command to prophesy responsibly is clearly continued in the New Testament, where we are to prophesy according to our measure of faith (Romans 12:6), and not any more or less than that. God gives us the grace of faith along with His word. False faith is presumption, and this is considered a misrepresentation of God's intent. People have died over presumption (e.g. the reported deaths of children whose parents removed or refused medical care for their children, presuming a healing that did not come, because of a cult-like adherence to errant teachings or proclamations).
Also, there are Scriptures in the New Testament that address the issue of the false prophet or apostle or teacher. These Scriptures would have to be examined completely in any teaching that was intended to define false prophets or true prophets, or the appropriate response to them. It is not enough to discern the false prophet or teacher, it is also necessary to discern the appropriate response to them. Deuteronomy 18:20-22 as a sign of a false prophet is not a complete treatment of the subject by any means, although it is a beginning to the volume of Biblical commentary on the subject. Prophesying presumptuously is not the same as prophesying in part, as we all do (1 Corinthians 13:9).
Today, we have a great emphasis on 'accuracy' and 'proven prophetic record'. We are led to believe that no one can prophesy unless they have someone say on their behalf, "He has a proven prophetic record," or "his prophecies are always accurate." The problem with this is that it is as ethically challenging as the quotes above which, by suggesting a 10% accuracy, negate the idea that a prophet of God has to be 'accurate' at all. God forbid that we expect to hear from psychics rather than prophets, while we wait for the Body of Christ to 'mature' as Bob Jones suggests and Rick Joyner implies (in the tape we are discussing)!!! Lord keep us from refusing to listen to the unheralded or to the new brother or sister in our midst, whose Words may also be from God! God is not limited by our evaluation of them or their relative 'maturity' to us, and they do not need 'letters of recommendation' as the false apostles did (2 Corinth. 3:1).
The focus on 'accuracy record' or 'proven prophetic record' can be a diversion from the core issues. One could try to say that required accuracy is the same as required perfection, and claim there is no grace for 'mistakes', but this is not true. A standard of perfectionism in 'knowing' is not expected even of apostles (1 Corinth. 13:9-12), but the Lord God speaks truthfully and does not lie. If He speaks, He is more than able to support His Word.
The focus of this article is not to highlight 'prophetic inaccuracy' alone, but rather to report the contents of the tape and MorningStar's official and public reaction to the difficulties MorningStar itself has generated. Since MorningStar preaches an abundance of grace regarding prophetic 'mistakes', there is no reason, even according to their own doctrine, to deny the contents of this prophecy by Jones/Joyner. MorningStar could have had a more honorable reaction to the dilemma of those who listened to them, but Joyner and the 'Round Table' chose a different course. For this, and because of other practices outlined in this document regarding their 'representation' of what the 'prophetic' is, they are openly rebuked.
Joyner's account of the contents of the tape is at best irresponsible. This public release was a misrepresentation of the facts. It is a rewriting of history. It is a misdirection from the contents of the tapes, as if they were not clear. Many prophecies that have circulated the Internet and have been on the Internet from MorningStar have been very vague, and therefore nearly impossible to say, "This did come true". This prophecy was different, as Joyner himself said on the tape. It was supposedly given because of the command of God to step out and say that 'these things', after 20 years of saying them, were going to come true NOW--SOON- (within the next 9 months or so). It is probably the apex of all disasters-from-earthquakes prophecies ever heard or known of (short of the book of Revelations). It is better than the book of Revelations, since it was given with a specific time frame attached. It was all indeed said with great authority, throughout the entire tape, based on previous 'proven prophet record' and other confident assertions. This all done with Joyner's full knowledge and support, as he as much as confirmed the prophecy.
There are examples in the Bible of prophets who prophesied both specific events and specific times, and those things did come to pass with some amount of certainty, and the people feared the Lord. Yet these things did not come to pass, no matter their bold assertions, and we do not hear from the prophet Jones. We hear a 'press release' after an untaped meeting of the mysterious 'Round Table', a full year and a half after the release of the tapes. We hear a callous response to a frightened people who depended on MorningStar's direction and prophetic prowess, as they were encouraged to do by their many boasts! We hear an 'apology' that essentially says, "I'm sorry you misunderstood." We hear them say again that others should wait for direction from them!
Accountability is not to man, or a group of Round Table 'national and international leaders' but to God. Accountability is to Scripture. Our brothers and sisters in the Lord call for accountability, when we stand in danger of the eventual consequences to our sin and error. Accountability sometimes requires open rebuke. Accountability toward the purity of the Gospel is a safety net for the Body of Christ, for even Jesus warned of the leaven (teachings) of the Pharisees, and even the apostles were concerned that 'little ones' might be deceived. Accountability is to what has been said and what is on record, not to what was meant to be said. It is unethical to duck accountability after firmly pronouncing that things are being said (now), with "greater authority, greater power, and greater accountability." It is irresponsible to neglect to check the facts or remember them, if that is the case. Surely the prophet and leader remembers his own words and prophecies? It is unethical to bear false witness or misrepresent. It is not noble to respond in such a manner to a distressed people, and it is not an act of responsible leadership.
The American public and the world have heard the boasts. Now the American public and the world can know the facts of what has happened when these boasts fail. The American and international public can know by this open rebuke, that, in our discernment, these acts, practices and teachings that are outlined above are not worthy of a viable, humble, prophetic ministry. While MorningStar acts in such a way, we do not wish them to be perceived as representative of the Lord's character and standards in the prophetic ministry. Let no one be deceived (Eph. 4:14, 1 Thess. 5:19-22).
NOTICE: We printed off and faxed this entire open rebuke
above, in a addition to the printed article, Covenants and Chivalry
by Lars Widerberg (located at URL http://home.swipnet.se/~w-54890/Position001.htm
), directly to Rick Joyner at his fax # from this URL:
http://www.morningstarministries.org/FYI.HTM (no longer available)
called, RICK JOYNER'S CORNER
Rick Joyner's Office
MorningS1@aol.com
(336) 838-7638 Fax: (336) 838-6380
Rick & Julie Joyner
It was faxed as of 2200 EDT 07/16/1999. We were unable to fax it to
the Morningstar's fax # (704) 522-9409
listed in their latest Morningstar Journal, as it was not working at
the time. There has been no answer as of yet.
------------------------
NOTICE: This article was published on our website in
July, 1999. As of about August 17, 1999, Morningstar took it's website
down for renovations. None of the Bulletins we previously linked to were
up on their site. Our links were broken until approx. Sept 1, when we found
that Morningstar had brought up some of the previous URL's again, and we
relinked to those that were viable again.
------------------------
UPDATE: It was suggested to us by someone that we send this article to Rick Joyner, marked 'Personal'. The Lord provided a separate volunteer to do this. The same article that was faxed earlier to 'Rick's Corner', has now been sent via mail to:
Rick Joyner
Morningstar Ministries
16000 Lancaster Highway
Charlotte, N.C. 28277-2067
'Personal mail' was written in the upper left-hand corner of the envelope. A 'cover letter' accompanied the article and was stapled to the front. This brief cover letter gave Rick Joyner the information needed to respond by either mail, internet, or fax. In this way, the contents of envelope (article and letter) that was sent to Rick Joyner, on Wednesday, 4:11 p.m., August 25th, can be verified.
Originally published July 1999.
Copyright 1998-1999 Teri Lee Earl
** Note: If quoting from this article
please do us the courtesy of linking back to it if by internet, or publishing
our main URL: http://www.harvestnet.org and/or the specific URL: http://www.harvestnet.org/lookback/godmanDec97.htm
along with the quote.
SUBNOTES:
Subnotes #1:
I have been asked what is my opinion of Rick Joyner's "Final Quest" book?
I truly believe that this is immaterial at this point, since in my opinion Joyner has acted the opposite of some of the best counsel found in the "Final Quest" anyhow. If it were from God, he did not heed the warnings about pride nor fully understand them, in my opinion. This I answered here. I also addressed my working knowledge of his sequel to this book, "The Call", in that section.I did not go into detail about each part of each book, nor try to compare each part to scripture. I did not attempt to deny or confirm the "Final Quest" as a real vision of God.
Subnotes #2:
The question has been asked, why don't you just call Rick Joyner and Bob Jones false prophets?
The simple reason in the case of Joyner/Jones was that I wasn't called by the Spirit of God to do that at the time. I was called to rebuke, not label. That should be reason enough.
Subnotes #3
For other questions, see Other commentary (some things we have learned). This page includes the subtitles, Clarification needed, On using threats and baseless accusations on behalf of your Favorite Prophet, and On How We Came to Participate in this Open Rebuke:
Other Addendums or supporting articles or links:
The RealAudio link to the Dec 31, 1997 MorningStar tape we have discussed in this article is no longer available.
In Oct. 1996, Rick Joyner wrote
an article called "God's Ultimate Plan" in The Morning
Star Journal, Vol. 5 No. 4, explaining his full embrace of Bob Jones' into
MorningStar ministries. (This article, is reproduced on our website at:
http://www.harvestnet.org/lookback/GUP.htm
For relevant background information to Joyner's explanations in "God's
Ultimate Plan", see Ernie
Gruen's 233-page public rebuke of Mike Bickle, Bob Jones, etc., from
January 1990, reproduced in PDF file at the following outside URL: http://www.banner.org.uk/kcp/kcp-gruen.html.
This rebuke does contain specific complaints against Bob Jones that coincides
with our rebuke, which is the irresponsible practice of prophesying disasterous
events that do not come to pass. (see C. Sensationalist Prophecies of Impending
Calamities, under section VI, page 117). This old rebuke had been unavailable
until year 2002 or so when Tricia Tillin made it available on her website,
Cross and Word.
**RICK JOYNER
AND CHARISMA MAGAZINE
This links contains information regarding the 'saga' between Joyner
and Charisma magazine, leading up to and following their Charisma
article, "God's Lightning Rod", in
their April, 2001, edition of Charisma magazine, (was once published on-line
by Charisma but is now reproduced on our website due to lack of availability).
Bryan Hupperts of SheepTrax Ministries
Bryan wrote and sent out Slouching
Towards Avalon, Jan. 2000,
He has since discussed this issue again in:
Prophetic
Irresponsibility
(PDF) by Bryan Hupperts, dated Aug 12, 2002
and
Prophetic
Irresponsibility: Responses
by Bryan Hupperts, dated Aug 14, 2002
Footnote: To see samples of our mail regarding
this rebuke, go to our mail
to author page about these articles.
(meaning, both the rebuke above
and the
"Trouble
in Prophet Land" article)
Some short articles concerning Internet 'prophecies'
This author sometimes receives questions regarding false prophecies.
She wrote 'Internet prophecies'
some time ago, in an attempt to briefly answer these questions.
Other related pages on our website:
'Prophet School' page (many general
teachings on the prophetic)
See especially, Prophets
and Prophecy, by George Potkonyak (contains brief discussion
on Deut. scripture)
Hierarchy page, (contains
links and teachings re: spiritual abuse)
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